A ABES participou, nesta segunda-feira, 16 de abril, em São Paulo, do debate “Mudanças na Política de saneamento Básico Lei Federal 11.445/07”. A entidade tem se posicionado contrária à proposta de MP para revisão do Marco Legal do Saneamento, que pode ser anunciada pelo governo federal nos próximos dias (veja aqui o posicionamento da entidade).
O presidente nacional da ABES, Roberval Tavares de Souza, integrou a mesa composta ainda por Dante Ragazzi Pauli, coordenador da Câmara Temática de Comunicação da ABES e neste evento representando o presidente da Sabesp, Jerson Kelman, os deputados João Paulo Papa e Nilto Tatto, Edson Aparecido da Silva, assessor da Federação Nacional dos Urbanistas, representando a Frente Nacional pelo Saneamento Ambiental, e O sociólogo Victor Gnecco Pagani, assessor do Departamento Intersindical de Estatística e Estudos Socioeconômicos – DIEESE. O presidente da ABES-SP, Márcio Gonçalves de Oliveira, e o vice-presidente da Seção São Paulo, Luiz Roberto Gravina Pladevall, prestigiaram o evento, promovido pela Associação dos engenheiros da Sabesp – AESabesp e pela Associação dos Profissionais Universitários da Sabesp no auditório Engº Tauzer Garcia Quinderé.
Dante cumprimentou os palestrantes e o público presente e ressaltou a questão da regulação. “Não tenho a menor dúvida de que é necessário um ordenamento federal para este tema, assim como energia elétrica e telecomunicações, entre outros setores da infraestrutura, para darmos o mínimo de padrão para a contabilidade regulatória, a questão tarifária e a questão da fiscalização, que significa melhoria da qualidade dos serviços prestados.”
Ele ressaltou o grande número de agências reguladoras no país: segundo um dos últimos relatórios da ABAR – Associação Brasileira de Agências Reguladoras, existem mais de 50 agências no Brasil. “É definido por lei. Mas daqui a pouco perderemos o fio da meada, não temos escala e capacidade técnica, muitas vezes, para tantas agências. Isso é legítimo, é uma escolha local, mas se for criado uma entidade federal para a regulação, deveria organizar este cenário.”
Outra questão colocada por ele é se a ANA – Agência Nacional de Águas é o ente adequado para regular o saneamento. “O presidente da Sabesp, Jerson Kelman (que ele representou no encontro) acha que sim. Eu, particularmente, não tenho isto claro. A ANA tem um papel importante e boa capacitação técnica, mas o saneamento é um dos usuários da água e a ANA coloca regras para os diversos usuários da água.”
Sobre a Lei 11.445, os participantes frisaram o artigo 10-A, que trata sobre o chamamento público de antes do contrato programa: a ABES sugere a retirada deste artigo que altera a Lei 11.445 de 05 de janeiro de 2007. Esse artigo aumenta ainda mais a seleção adversa ao interesse público, ou seja, induz as operadoras públicas e privadas a competir apenas por municípios superavitários, deixando os deficitários ao encargo dos municípios e estados. Dessa maneira, dificulta a prestação do serviço de forma regionalizada e, ao dificultar a prática de subsídios cruzados, agrava as diferenças na qualidade e na cobertura dos serviços, com prejuízo para a população mais carente.
“Acho que pecamos um pouco em relação aos planos de saneamento. Um plano de saneamento não é só o aspecto de projeção de população, técnico e de investimento. Ele define a política municipal de saneamento. O titular, que é o município, escolhe a forma de prestar serviço. O problema é que o saneamento não é priorizado nem pelo nível federal, nem estadual nem municipal. A lei tem este aspecto positivo de dar legitimidade ao prefeito e à sociedade local tomar conta. Muitas vezes, como o saneamento não é priorizado, o prefeito agradece quando a companhia estadual toma conta. São raras as exceções em que o prefeito prioriza o saneamento. Eu menciono isto porque é um flanco usado para sugerir o Artigo 10-A.”
Em sua fala, o presidente da ABES, Roberval Tavares de Souza, alerta que a mudança da lei impactará de forma significativa e que o setor tem que se movimentar. “Temos que repercutir este tema em todo o país.”
Roberval abordou a política atual de saneamento básico, ressaltando a visão da ABES de que, após 11 anos de implantação da lei, há pontos que precisam ser melhorados.
O presidente da ABES explicou o contexto da proposta de revisão da Lei e da participação da ABES neste debate, desde que o atual governo federal, ao assumir, iniciou as discussões para que fosse elaborado um diagnóstico em relação às políticas de saneamento do país.
“Primeiramente foi criado o Programa de Parcerias e Investimentos, o chamado PPI. Com a criação deste programa, uma das partes tocava no saneamento e o BNDES passou a ser o condutor do processo de melhoria do saneamento no país. Já houve aí um completo desvio de função. Um banco não irá focar na questão social. Esta ação teve adesão de 18 estados, para o programa de modernização do saneamento, mas este número hoje já caiu para apenas 8 planos de diagnósticos de 8 estados. E destes devem chegar à conclusão três.”
Roberval mencionou as várias reuniões realizadas pela Casa Civil com participação das entidades do setor e a minuta de Projeto de Lei apresentada em 7 de novembro em Brasília, encontro ao qual a ABES também esteve presente para apresentar as contribuições da entidade à proposta do governo. Uma semana antes, a ABES já havia enviado ao então ministro das Cidades, Bruno Araújo, carta em que sugeria duas ações imediatas ao Ministério (leia aqui a íntegra da carta). E defendeu, no encontro do dia 7, em Brasília, as propostas contidas no documento CONTRIBUIÇÕES DA ABES A MINUTA APRESENTADA PARA ALTERAÇÃO DA LEI 9.984/00 E LEI 11.445/07 (leia aqui).
Além do artigo A-10, citado acima, o outro ponto ressaltado pela ABES é que o Ministério pretende utilizar medida provisória para a revisão, o que significa fazer uso de instrumento pouco democrático; a ABES propõe alterar a legislação descrita na proposta referenciada por meio do mesmo mecanismo legal, ou seja, Projeto de Lei. A possibilidade de alteração por medida provisória poderá ser considerada ato inconstitucional, enquanto o projeto de lei abre o debate no Legislativo, permitindo a maior participação da sociedade. “E ainda não está claro, não houve resposta oficial do governo sobre se mudou de Medida Provisória para Projeto de Lei.”
Sobre o artigo 10-A, Roberval foi novamente veemente: “É ele que desestrutura, joga no chão o saneamento do país. Ele exige que o município, antes de começar o contrato-programa, realize um chamamento público quanto ao interesse de outras empresas. Com este artigo será obrigatório que os municípios façam o chamamento público. Hoje o município define se quer fazer uma licitação, contratualizar com a empresa estadual ou operar o sistema de saneamento. Agora é obrigatório o chamamento e, se houver interesse, tem que licitar. No nosso entendimento, interfere na autonomia dos municípios, é isso que a Constituição diz, e acaba com a lógica do subsídio cruzado, a lógica da escala dos serviços. As empresas estaduais hoje atendem 75% da população, exercendo a lógica do subsídio cruzado. E os municípios mais rentáveis, mais ricos, subsidiam os municípios mais pobres. Com este projeto, os ricos serão mais ricos e os pobres serão mais pobres.”
Roberval exemplificou com o município de Borá, que tem cerca de 2 mil ligações. “Com este Artigo 10-A Borá, no interior de São Paulo, terá que fazer um chamamento público. Será que aparecerá alguém interessado em operar um município com apenas 2 mil ligações? Quase impossível. Mas haverá uma fila de interessados para São Paulo. Com uma série de concorrentes, os municípios rentáveis poderão ter a tarifa reduzida e no município mais pobre, para atender será necessário subir a tarifa. Ou sobrará para o estado. Esta é a lógica que faz parte do modelo de saneamento existente e que dá sustentação ao saneamento em nosso país. Esse projeto acaba com esta lógica.”
Roberval deixou clara a posição da ABES em relação à questão público/privado. “Não estamos em disputa, há pontos que nos unem e em outros divergimos. No nosso entendimento, há necessidade de investimento privado em nosso país. O que ressaltamos é que não é desta forma. Pode ser por meio de PPP, por meio de concessão – a lei já existe – há formas do privado participar e buscar a universalização dos serviços em nosso país. Há necessidade de investimento privado. São Paulo, Paraná, Minas Gerais e Distrito Federal são exceções em nosso país. Os outros estados têm dificuldades de avançar, especialmente em relação à questão do esgoto. Acreditamos que a união do público e do privado fará chagar á universalização. O Contexto aqui é só o `como’. Da forma como está sendo proposto pelo governo, irá desestruturar tudo, inclusive para o setor privado.
Metade dos brasileiros não tem acesso àquilo que é mais fundamental da infraestrutura: o saneamento. Essa é a realidade do setor”, reforçou o deputado João Paulo Papa. “E é nesse cenário desfavorável que o atual governo apresenta essa ideia de fazer essa atualização do marco regulatório e obviamente com o viés do incentivo à privatização das estatais tentando criar instrumentos para os contratos”, disse.
Papa chamou a atenção para a baixa representação que a questão do saneamento tem no congresso, o que afeta sobremaneira as decisões relacionadas. “Não tem a força proporcional à importância que o tema do saneamento tem para o país. Poucos parlamentares têm visão efetiva pelas questões e lutas”. De acordo com o deputado, no momento em que a proposta chegar à Câmara e ao Senado, o ambiente não será dos mais apropriados para uma discussão mais qualificada, “o que aumenta a responsabilidade das instituições nacionais que representam o setor, como a ABES e a AESBE, como associações estaduais, sindicatos, urbanitários”, afirmou.
Para ele, com a proposta do governo, o setor vai se desorganizar e perder o que conquistou até. “As estatais mais frágeis praticamente vão desaparecer. Acredito que é o nosso papel lutar contra tudo isso”, alertou Papa.
O deputado Nilto Tatto disse que, no momento, “é fundamental a articulação e diálogo com outros setores da sociedade”. Segundo ele, não tem receita para que este tema ganh o coração e a mente das pessoas. Temos que encontrar os mecanismos, relacionar com a saúde, por exemplo, com o debate ambiental, com saneamento rural. “É um desafio. Temos que encontrar o caminho e as redes sociais são importantes, neste sentido”, salientou. Para o parlamentar, o debate contra o projeto do governo “pode criar possibilidades de aprofundar o debate no processo eleitoral para melhorar setores da sociedade”.
Victor Gnecco Pagani apresentou a palestra “Empresas Estatais e Desenvolvimento: Considerações sobre a atual Política”. O trabalho é uma nota técnica que destaca a importância das empresas estatais para o desenvolvimento nacional. “Existe uma questão ideológica disseminada na sociedade em relação ao tema. A ideia de que o que é público não funciona, é corrupto”, disse. O intuito da nota técnica, conforme explicou Victor, é mostra informações sobre como países desenvolvidos se relacionam com as empresas públicas. Sobre a participação no debate, o sociólogo enfatizou que “a promoção desse diálogo social é fundamental”.
A presidente da Associação dos Profissionais Universitários da Sabesp, Francisca Adalgisa da Silva, que fez parte da mesa de abertura do evento, destacou a importância do debate. “É uma discussão muito relevante porque diz respeito às nossas vidas”, pontuou. Segundo ela, as PPPs são importantes, mas destruir um setor para dar abertura para o privado perigoso devido ao que é o saneamento. “O que temos hoje, construído a duras penas é fruto de um longo trabalho das pessoas que vivem pelo setor. Lidar com saneamento é lidar com vida, com a saúde e o bem-estar da população, com a preservação ambiental. É mais do que simplesmente oferecer agua. É oferecer dignidade”, enfatizou. “Quando vemos que o nosso setor está ameaçado, nós, como cidadãos, lideranças, presidentes de associações, temos que ficar atentos”, completou.
Olavo Sachs Prates, que também integrou a mesa de abertura, lembrou que o tema do marco regulatório do saneamento envolve a todos: “o futuro da empresa e do saneamento brasileiro”. Ele citou a importância das parcerias entre as instituições e que o assunto deverá estar presente no próximo encontro técnico da AESabesp. “Temos que bater forte neste tema até sermos ouvidos em Brasília”, afirmou.
Edson Aparecido da Silva frisou: “estamos em uma investida constante na Câmara dos Deputados, conversando sobre os malefícios deste projeto. E vamos continuar nessa nossa peregrinação em defesa do saneamento público pela universalização do acesso e pelo fortalecimento dos instrumentos de controle social”.
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