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Em encontro promovido pela ABES-SP, especialistas debatem os desafios da regulação no saneamento no Brasil

01/06/2017 Redação ABES

Por Ana Paula Rogers, Sueli Melo e Clara Zaim

Um encontro que marcou o debate sobre a regulação no saneamento no Brasil. Foi assim que especialistas definiram o seminário “Desafios da Regulação no Setor de Saneamento”, que a Associação Brasileira de Engenharia Sanitária e Ambiental – ABES Seção São Paulo (ABES-SP) promoveu na terça-feira, 30 de maio. O evento foi realizado no auditório do Conselho Regional de Química – CRQ, na capital paulista, e contou com palestras de especialistas como Jerson Kelman, presidente da Sabesp, e José Bonifácio de Souza Amaral, diretor da Arsesp (ambas entidades patrocinadoras do seminário, juntamente com a Aegea), além de Alexandre Godeiro, da Secretaria Nacional de Saneamento Ambiental do Ministério das Cidades.

Em seu discurso de abertura, o presidente da ABES-SP, Alceu Guérios Bittencourt, ressaltou a importância do debate acerca do tema. “A regulação é um assunto que a ABES considera central nas discussões do nosso setor”, afirmou. “É um caminho que nos permite pensar em modernizar e colocar a relação de separação de funções, indispensável para arranjos eficientes que possam enfrentar os gargalos que temos no setor há tempos”, enfatizou.

O engenheiro lembrou que a ABES nacional já realizou um importante seminário sobre o assunto regulação e que a ABES-SP está dando continuidade ao debate. Destacou, ainda, que este será um dos temas centrais na discussão política do setor durante o maior encontro de saneamento da Américas, o Congresso ABES Fenasan 2017, que acontecerá entre os dias 2 e 6 de outubro, na capital paulista. Este foi um dos encontros preparatórios para o Congresso.

Alceu agradeceu à Arsesp, principal patrocinadora do encontro. “Mais do que patrocinadora, a Arsesp nos ajudou a estruturar o evento. Agradeço também o apoio da Sabesp e da Aegea – reguladores e operadores nos apoiando. A ABES procura estar sempre aberta às diversas visões do nosso setor para tentar ajudar a construir nossas discussões”.

Subsídios

Um dos pontos abordados no encontro foi a questão dos subsídios. Para Alceu Bittencourt, que coordenou e foi debatedor do Painel II sobre “Subsídios Tarifários no Setor de Saneamento”, o tema “é central para a discussão e envolve todo o equacionamento sobre como podemos superar nossas limitações e dificuldades”, disse. Segundo ele, não é possível viabilizar todo o serviço relacionado ao saneamento somente com tarifas. “Esse é um setor em que parte do atendimento não é recuperável por meio de tarifa ou é com algum tipo de subsídio interno dentro do sistema tarifário”, frisou.

Ainda neste contexto, o especialista salientou também a importância da Secretaria Nacional de Saneamento do Ministério da Cidades em “assumir a função de patrocinar estudos de orientação e proporcionar assistência técnica (há um grande déficit desses padrões no setor). Este é um papel muito importante que a Secretaria desempenha”, finalizou.

O presidente da Sabesp, Jerson Kelman, que apresentou a visãda empresa sobre o tema, chamou atenção para o problema da estrutura tarifária. O debate, segundo ele, é abrangente. “Tem muito espaço para discussão pública e acadêmica. É possível produzir propostas que se aproximem com mais justiça do que temos hoje. Não temos uma tarifa que traduza equidade”, declarou.

O olhar dos especialistas

Os palestrantes reforçaram a relevância da discussão em torno do tema e elogiaram à ABES-SP pela iniciativa.

Painel I Áreas de Indefinição e atribuições regulatórias

“Este primeiro painel tentou responder algo que preocupa todos os agentes – o operador (no caso de uma concessionária, a Sabesp), a própria agência, a saúde, o meio ambiente, quem faz o que nesse processo? Muita coisa se viu no passado e acho que agora a conversa está convergindo para soluções, convênios, para acordos entre os órgãos, para não se duplicarem fiscalçizações e atribuições. Isso era uma questão sobre a qual a ABES agora conseguiu montar um painel muito representativo, com todo mundo que tem que estar aqui pra refletir sobre a mesma questão, que é: que regulação a gente quer? E também que consiga ser realmente um elemento de modernização do saneamento na busca de universalização e água para todos.”

Marisa Guimarães, conselheira da ABES-SP e coordenadora adjunta da Câmara Temática de Regulação e Tarifas da ABES, que coordenou o painel.

“Parabéns à ABES pelo evento. Quando trazemos esses órgãos gestores, reguladores, conseguimos debater e entender até onde vai a competência de cada um. Já percebemos que se todos trabalharem conjuntamente, vamos conseguir chegar a um resultado satisfatório. Esse tipo de encontro é extremamente importante porque precisamos dessa discussão com mais atores, como o Ministério Público, concessionárias, órgãos de financiamento. Este é um debate bm amplo.” Hélio Luiz castro, diretor de regulação Técnica e Fiscalização dos Serviços de Saneamento e Energia do Estado de São Paulo – Arsesp, que apresentou a Visão da entidade.

“É um tema muito atual. Acabamos e passar por uma crise hídrica de grande proporção e sem precedentes e isso evidenciou muito a importância dos órgãos de regulação, colocando em destaque esta questão, a questão da outorga, de todo esse arcabouço de legislação que temos. É importante que a gente possa dar uma resposta com a integração de todos esses agentes. A ABES foi muito feliz escolhendo o tema no sentido de que isso pode dar continuidade a um processo existente, mas com muito mais ênfase e com mais conhecimento para que a sociedade se aproprie dessas ideias no futuro.”

Ricardo Borsari, superintendente do Departamento de Águas e Energia Elétrica – DAEE – do Estado de São Paulo, que abordou o tema “Outorga de água bruta e segurança de barragens”

“Estou muito grato e satisfeito com a participação nesse evento que a ABES promoveu junto com a Arsesp. É uma maneira de discutirmos os problemas e o que foi enfatizado aqui é a integração das ações nas instituições e o fortalecimento institucional. Tudo isso é necessário para evoluirmos na gestão e política pública do setor de saneamento. Parabenizo a ABES e a Arsesp pelo seminário. Espero ser convidado para outros eventos”.

Luís Sergio Osório Valentim, Diretor de Meio Ambiente do Centro de Vigilância Sanitária- CVS/SES- SP. Ele abordou em sua palestra o tema “Qualidade da Água”.

“O evento foi fundamental porque trouxe diferentes atores para que pudéssemos buscar uma discussão conjunta em torno de pontos que são comuns a todos nós. Estas são iniciativas muito importantes. A Cetesb vê como uma forma basilar de articulação com os órgãos que fazem parte do sistema ambiental paulista. Do ponto de vista da questão da água, vemos como um aspecto extremamente importante porque isto está dentro dos principais programas relacionados à questão do Governo do Estado. No que pudermos contribuir, estaremos sempre à disposição da ABES.”

José Eduardo Bevilacqua, assistente executivo, da Diretoria de Avaliação de Impacto Ambiental – da Companhia Ambiental do Estado de São Paulo – Cetesb. “Controle da Poluição Hídrica” foi o tema abordado por ele.

“Tudo que se relaciona a água, os problemas, a continuidade e a herança que deixaremos para os nossos sucessores é bem-vindo. Temos que aproveitar a oportunidade e estudar o assunto com profundidade. Analisamos a água no sentido vertical, insisto, a água tem transversalidade em todos os elementos da cadeia produtiva. Se não tivermos água, não teremos emprego. Como viveremos sem água, o que será do mundo?”

César Seara, da ABCON, debatedor do primeiro Painel

Painel II “Subsídios Tarifárias no Setor de Saneamento

“O evento foi muito bem colocado devido à situação do saneamento no país. A questão de regulação aplicada ao saneamento é pouco discutida no Brasil. O evento reuniu os atores do setor e assim podemos ter uma proposta de definição clara, o que fazer, a quem atender e, obviamente, saber quem paga. Precisamos atender às pessoas que não têm condições de fazer as ligações domiciliares do esgotamento sanitário mesmo com a rede passando pela sua porta. Parabenizo à ABES pelo nível do evento promovido. Espero que no Congresso ABES/Fenasan 2017 possamos aprofundar o assunto e apresentar soluções para esse problema que ocorre no saneamento”.

Alexandre Araújo Godeiro Carlos, coordenador técnico do Departamento de Planejamento e Regulação, da Secretaria Nacional de Saneamento Ambiental/Ministério das Cidades. Em sua palestra, ele abordou o tema “A discussão da política de subsídios do ponto de vista da Secretaria Nacional do Meio Ambiente”

“É muito importante a questão de subsídio no Brasil, que foi levantada pela ABES, pois afeta a população de baixa renda e qualquer solução que for apresentada pode melhorar as condições de acesso e de sustentabilidade do seu consumo”.

Hugo Oliveira, Consultor, que ministrou a palestra “Alternativas de política de subsídio: panorama internacional”

“Foi muito interessante porque tivemos várias visões: a visão do Governo Federal, da Secretaria Nacional de Saneamento, dos estudos que eles vêm fazendo para avançar nessa questão de subsídios, de como ter um tratamento a nível nacional no sentido de ter uma disseminação de conhecimento – foi muito interessante a palestra e esse estudo que está em andamento. Depois o Hugo de Oliveira, falando das experiências de subsídios dos diferentes países, para que possamos ver que em tipo de realidade poderíamos nos mirar ou se basear para ajudar a melhorar. Eu fiz uma avaliação também da questão dos subsídios como é hoje, não temos subsídios fiscais, não tem dinheiro do Tesouro Paulista para o setor de saneamento, ele é totalmente autossuficiente e os consumidores são quem pagam todos os custos e remuneram os investimentos. E há subsídios cruzados, as tarifas mais baixas são suportadas por consumidores que pagam tarifas mais altas. Isso é algo que certamente terá que ser revisto, repensado e aperfeiçoado no futuro. E finalmente, o Dr. Kelman, presidente da Sabesp, também fez uma avaliação da empresa, das dificuldades com as quais ela se depara, como esse sistema de subsídios cruzados pode provocar distorções e também da necessidade de vê-los.  Foi uma mesa de quem está pensando a favor do saneamento, de quem está pensando como superar dificuldades e ao mesmo tempo sempre presente e todos a preocupação com o aspecto social do saneamento: a inclusão das pessoas de baixa renda, com tarifas mais palatáveis para elas, e finalmente a universalização dos serviços, que é uma meta da Lei de Saneamento.”

José Bonifáciode Souza Amaral, diretor de Regulação Econômico-Financeira e de Mercados da Arsesp, que palestrou sobre o tema “O papel da agência reguladora na discussão de subsídios”

“A ABES está de parabéns. Escolheu um ótimo tema que suscitou o que se espera da evolução da tarifa média quando os investimentos são feitos para melhorar a qualidade dos serviços, como deve ser a estrutura tarifária e o que fazer para proteger os mananciais.”

Jerson Kelman, presidente da Companhia de Saneamento Básico do estado de São Paulo – Sabesp, que apresentou a visão da empresa sobre o tema

Painel III – Proteção e Recuperação de Mananciais Urbanos: Inclusão na Tarifa?

O painel foi elogiado pelos participantes, pela inovação da ABES-SP em incluir o tema em uma discussão sobre regulação.

Para o diretor da ABES-SP e presidente da Apecs, Luiz Roberto Gravina Pladevall, que coordenou o painel, o objetivo do evento foi plenamente atingido. “A ABES-SP mais uma vez inovou trazendo a discussão da política pública dos problemas que estamos enfrentando no país inteiro”, disse. “Conseguimos debater todos os temas com uma profundidade interessante”, concluiu.

Leia a seguir os comentários dos palestrantes:

“Foi um dia extremamente rico. Todos os temas relevantes que envolvem a questão da regulação foram, de alguma forma, tratados, alguns com mais profundidade. O último painel, que trouxe a questão dos mananciais, foi muito inovador. Pela primeira vez estamos trazendo este debate para dentro do tema da regulação. Gera dúvidas, incertezas, mas eu acredito que é um caminhoi importante.

João Paulo Ribeiro Capobianco, presidente do Instituto Democracia e Sustentabilidade, que palestrou sobre o tema “Necessidades da proteção de mananciais”

“A iniciativa da ABES foi extremamente oportuna ao trazer alguns assuntos de ponta dentro da regulação, dos operadores de agua e, particularmente, a questão da conservação de mananciais como uma necessidade das companhias de água e como a sociedade lida com essa demanda, sobretudo com a divisão desta conta. São diversos beneficiário, além das companhias água. E isso precisa ser discutido em mais profundidade em eventos como este.”

Claudio Klemz, especialista em Políticas de Segurança Hídrica – The Nature Conservancy (TNT). Ele falou sobre “Proteção de Mananciais de Regulação: o caso do Rio Camburiú, em Santa Catarina”

“Tivemos o lançamento de uma ideia, colocamos os elementos em algumas situações o custo de território e de sua preservação que são pagos de algumas formas pela tarifa cobrada pelas concessionárias de saneamento. É uma questão a ser discutir. Aceito a discussão, é um tema que precisa ser amadurecido, mas precisamos também colocar questões que são sérias e estratégicas para o setor que não são do conhecimento dessas pessoas. Precisamos expandir a viabilidade e o grau de cobertura do saneamento. Não apenas em São Paulo, mas em outros estados que inclusive encontram maiores dificuldades. Temos um longo caminho para chegar na universalização do saneamento. Como obter isso não está absolutamente claro. As dificuldades fiscais também precisam ser discutidas. O seminário veio em um momento propício”.

Ricardo Guilherme Araújo, coordenador do Programa Mananciais, que ministrou a palestra “Mananciais Urbanos e Periurbanos: a experiência do Programa Mananciais”

“Trazer o tema de mananciais e as suas dificuldades para a discussão no ambiente do saneamento é fundamental e inovador. A água é um insumo básico e importante seja do ponto de vista de coleta ou de tratamento. O saneamento contribui para a preservação dos mananciais seja pelo sistema de tarifa ou investimentos nos pontos que prejudicam a sua qualidade. O assunto é pertinente para a pauta desse debate”.

Orestes Marraccini Gonçalves, presidente do Conselho de Orientação em Saneamento da Arsesp e debatedor do terceiro Paine

Jovens Profissionais do Saneamento marcam presença

Integrantes do programa Jovens Profissionais do Saneamento da ABES-SP prestigiaram o evento. Para o coordenador do JPS-SP Thomas Ficarelli, o evento foi excelente, principalmente a discussão sobre a questão da tarifação. “Foi muito bem abordada. O conhecimento técnico dos palestrantes é gigantesco e acho positivo vermos um avanço não só nana questão da tarifa, regulação e fiscalização, mas também um avanço na integração institucional que a ABES está promovendo como um espaço comum em que todos estes entes podem dialogar em pé de igualdade, sem os conflitos institucionais que estão tão arraigados. A ABES é um espaço de diálogo, harmonia e cooperação.”

A integrante do JPS-SP Subseção Limeira (que será oficialmente implementado em breve), Beatriz Couto Ribeiro, ressalta a abrangência dos debates. “O evento foi muito interessante, pois não mostrou somente a realidade do saneamento do estado de São Paulo, mas sim de todo o país. É importante dividir o conhecimento, acrescentar novas experiências assim como conhecer os profissionais do setor de saneamento básico. É sempre uma grande honra e oportunidade participar dos eventos realizados pela ABES aqui em São Paulo.”

Confira mais fotos na galeria de imagens do evento. Clique aqui.

 

 

 

 

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